—the Mālikī’s deputy—to say:
“You say that Allah calls out with a voice.”
The shaykh replied, “That is what your Prophet said, if you believe in him; and that is what Muhammad ibn ʿAbd Allāh said, if you regard him as a Messenger.”
Whenever the shaykh cited a hadith and attributed it to the two Sahīh collections, the sultan’s deputy would ask them, “Is this what the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said?” They would answer, “Yes.” He would then say, “What, then, can be said against someone who affirms what the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said?”
He also asked the shaykh, “Did you say everything you have said on your own authority?”
He replied, “Rather, I transmit all of it from the Prophet of this community, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. I explain that the various groups within Islam transmit it from the early generations just as I have transmitted it, and that the imams of Islam uphold it. I debate in its defence, and I am familiar with the school of thought of everyone who opposes me.”
The shaykh became greatly indignant with the Mālikī’s deputy and al-Safī al-Hindī, silencing them both so completely that neither said anything worth mentioning thereafter. These sheets cannot accommodate all the details of what happened.
After the session, some of the Shāfiʿīs brought an excerpt from al-Qurtubī’s Quran commentary stating that none of the early generations denied that Allah Most High truly rose over the Throne; that they did not maintain that direction must be denied, and spoke only according to what His Messengers had conveyed; and that the Throne was singled out in this regard because it is the greatest of created things. What they did not know was the manner of His rising over the Throne, whose actual nature is unknown. As Mālik, may Allah have mercy on him, said:
“Rising over the Throne is known—meaning in the language—but its manner is unknown. Belief in it is obligatory, and asking about it is an innovation.”
The Mālikī said, “We did not know this.”