that it is what exists and subsists by itself does not, in their view, contradict their statement that it has length, breadth, and depth and is described as moving and being at rest. For they hold that nothing exists and subsists by itself unless it has these characteristics. This is the position of the leaders and the majority of the corporealists, including Hishām and others. It is also the position of various groups among the Karrāmiyya.

However, Hishām and his followers do not affirm that a body has any attribute distinct from itself. Hence he says that only bodies exist, and does not say that its attribute is distinct from it. The Karrāmiyya, by contrast, are reported to say that its attribute is distinct from it.

Yet these doctrines and sects existed before the emergence of the Karrāmiyya. Muhammad ibn Karrām only appeared during the third century AH, and he was a contemporary of Abū Saʿīd ibn Kullāb. Both preceded al-Ashʿarī, although he—that is,