Abd al-Azīz said:

I said to Bishr, “Do you not say that Allah existed when nothing else existed, and that He had not yet done anything or created anything?”

He said, “Yes.”

I said, “Then how did things come into existence after they had not existed? Did they bring themselves into existence, or did Allah bring them into existence?”

He said, “Allah brought them into existence.”

I said to him, “Then by what did things come into existence when Allah brought them into existence?”

He said, “He brought them into existence through His power, which has always existed.”

I said to him, “He brought them into existence through His power, as you have stated. Do you not say that He has always possessed power?”

He said, “Yes.”

I said to him, “Do you then say that He has always acted?”

He said, “I do not say this.”

I said to him, “Then you must necessarily say that He created through an act that proceeded from His power. The act is not the power, for power is an attribute of Allah. It is not said of an attribute of Allah that it is Allah, nor that it is other than Allah.”

Bishr said, “You, too, must say that Allah has always acted and created. If you say that, it follows that created things have always existed alongside Allah.”

Abd al-Azīz said:

I said to Bishr, “You have no right to pass judgment on me, impose upon me a conclusion that does not follow from my position, or attribute to me something I have not said. I did not say: